Here is a blog interchange between a friend of mine and myself, the original post, and my comment, can be found at leviathen.blogspot.com the following is my response to his response to my comment to his post, haha! (My friends words are in parenthesis):

I will address your comment point by point:

(so you have truly been indoctrinated.)

I recognize that this is tongue in cheek (at least I hope so…), however, I have to point out that of the two of us, I am not the one defending the position that has behind it the weight of “popular” opinion (as per our mutual friend George Barna). If either of the two of us have been “indoctrinated” into beliefs that are backed by emotion/public opinion as opposed to beliefs originating in the heart of Jesus, I will let you be the judge as to who…

(Tell me, where in the bible does it link going to church with any of the spiritual disciplines.)

I am not quite sure where to begin here:

1) “church” in the biblical languages was a word for a group of people, not a building or a program, therefore the bible could NEVER speak of “going to church.” That combination of words simply would not make any sense in the Hebrew or Greek language.

2) The Bible also doesn’t speak of “spiritual disciplines” per se, which means that, of course, the Bible wouldn’t tie anything in to spiritual disciplines either.

3) If we use the original definition of the word church (which is consistent with what the author and original hearers would have understood it to signify) and ask if there is any link between “ekklesia,” and what we refer to as spiritual disciplines, to be found in the Bible; the answer is a resounding “YES!”

(Where in the bible does Jesus mention going to church?)

For our purposes I am going to ignore the numerous references to Jesus in the midst of the gathered God-seekers in houses of worship (I am assuming you were discounting these as somehow inferior to “Christian” gatherings, which I personally wouldn’t buy, and that is another talk for another day…), and focus rather on the description of Jesus’ life lived out in what can only be described as “ekklesia.”

Jesus spent almost every waking and sleeping moment with his “called-out-ones (ekklesia)” for approximately three years. This group of people were “gathered together in the name of Jesus” and had the unspoken purpose (implicit within the description given of this community within the Gospel narratives) of ministering to the needs of the social outcast, learning to live in community, building up men and women into bearers of the Christ-image, and spreading the news of the presently coming Kingdom.

They didn’t “attend” church because it isn’t possible to do that (at least in a way that does any sort of justice to the language used by those very people); they WERE the church. This is evident by the description given of their common life in the Gospel stories, and the subsequent definitions given of the Church by the epistles.

("It seems that the very people who hold up the banner "the church is the people" are the ones who turn their backs on those relationships."
It seems to me that you have a very narrow view of what a Christian’s relationships have to be. From this statement I surmise that you feel we should only be in relationship with those that are in some kind of church. If this is the case I would most heartedly disagree. You got to get past this idea that spiritual formation can only happen within the bounds of the churches walls. It is not reality, it's only tradition.)

1) I suppose I do have a narrow view of what a Christian’s relationships must be if they are to do any justice to the name of Christ. A Christian must seek to love Christ, and must seek to love his Christian brothers and sisters, and must seek to love the un-Christian world. If you must ask the question what would that love look like lived out in specific circumstances and with finite resources I will point you to the person of Christ.

How can we claim to love our neighbor if we never invite him into our home for dinner, or enter his home for dinner? How can we claim to have “fellowship” with the Body of Christ if we never even come into contact with its members? How can we claim to enter into the mission of God if, upon entering the world to love those we find there, we have nothing to invite them to because we are not connected to Jesus as He CHOOSES to manifest Himself in the world?

2) The Church cannot have walls because the Church isn’t a building.

3) Spiritual Formation (if by spiritual formation you mean being formed into the image of Christ) cannot happen outside of the Church (if by Church you mean the community of people in whom the Spirit of Christ manifests Himself throughout all of creation throughout all of time) by definition; it would be impossible for people to have the Spirit of Christ forming them into the image of Christ, without those people being connected to the Spirit of Christ.

4) The belief that reality and tradition cannot be one and the same thing is a silly thing to say for someone who is willing to accept as reality ANY single thing that he is not currently and personally experiencing.

("How can someone calling themselves a "life-long learner under the master Jesus" turn away from His teaching and example in this area." Huh? Example? You'll have to show me the bible you read. ‘Cause I've never seen anything referring to Jesus going to church or commanding us to go to church.)

1) You, again, do violence to the language of the Bible by asking that I produce language in the English translation of the Bible that would be the equivalent of meaningless gibberish in the original language.

2) Again, ignoring Jesus in the “church” (synagogue) of His day… Jesus devoted himself to the Church and spent his time among the Church in a way that could only be described as fanatical commitment. (Matthew 12:46-50)

3) Jesus didn’t “command” us to enter into Church, He rather invited us to join with His activity in creation, and that activity is, be definition, the Church. The Church is the people in whom the Spirit of Christ is active, the Hands and Feet of Jesus, the Agents of God’s purposes. If we turn our back on what Jesus is doing, then so be it; Jesus will never do anything outside of the scope of the Spirit-indwelt-people, aka the Church.

("Jesus embraced the life of the Church, he planted the first Church and devoted his life (24-7) to the relationships within the fledgling church community" bro..... read your bible....... Jesus was dead and risen before the church even got off the ground.)

1) Again, you bring your Modern, Western, English ways of seeing, understanding, and speaking to the Bible and its language; this impairs your ability to see what is there. (I too had to be broken of that way of seeing, thinking, speaking.) If Jesus died prior to the Church’s existence, then what is the meaning of His specific usage of the term “church” several times? (Matthew 16:18, Matthew 18:17) What other conceivable meaning could Jesus have had than “church” when He referred to the Church as “church?” (Don’t forget to remember the original meaning of the word “church” when you read the previous sentence!) The word church at that time was not the label that it is today; the word church had no specific connotations to the person of Jesus, or to His followers, or even to spirituality. (If my sources are correct, the word church was originally a political term in the Greek.) The word was simply an adequate descriptor of what was taking place around the Messiah, and could very easily have been replaced with various other words that would have come down the centuries to mean (in their adulterated definition) what the term Church means today (the adulterated definition).

2) What other possible rationale is there for defining the community of Christ-followers as the Church if not the presence of Jesus in their midst? (Isn’t this a central idea of John 15?) Which was the promise of our Master Himself (Matthew 28:20b, John 20:22, Matthew 18:20), and was just as true when Jesus was present in the flesh as it was when He was present in the Spirit.

(seriously, lets back these up with some scriptural reference.)

I have tried to do so with my limited understanding and scope of study, I would challenge you to begin seeking the Bible, not for what you hope to find to justify your anger or frustration at broken people and organizations, but for what the Bible reveals the Church to be. I too have approached the Bible to find support for my own pet ideas, when I humbled myself I found (and continue to find) Jesus and the people He loves and indwells.

I do not mean to hurt you by my words. You know I consider you a brother. I love the Church with my imperfect reflection of Christ’s perfect love for His Bride, whom He died for.

Do not find yourself in the position of Saul who, in persecuting the Church, was asked by Christ, “Why are you persecuting ME?” (Acts 9:4)